Curse

jray14 · Dec 20, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I'm just wondering, does anyone have any insight as to why Spiteful Spirit was not included in the big AI update of Nov 10-11? Its mechanics are almost exactly the same as Mark of Pain, which is among the many "scarecrow" attacks now.

I'm just curious because a N/Me with Spiteful Spirit + Arcane Echo + Spinal Shivers + Awaken the Blood has got to be hands-down the most powerful build in PVE, to the point of being unbalanced. I don't have a necro character, and I'm feeling left out. With my Me/N I can be a "feaux SS/Spinal" and STILL way out-damage any of the other builds on any of my characters. (And yet I still have a lot of trouble getting into groups, of course). I can only imagine how much more uber I would be as a N/Me. lol

So what gives?

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 20, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

with monster no longer being mindless idiots, they respect and fear the almighty powerful spiteful spirit
anyways, its the same mechanics are skills like empathy and insidious, except it effect those around the hexed enemy. mobs dont run from cyclone axe and hundred blades and those are AoE

xBakox · Dec 20, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

My guess is that in Spiteful Spirit, it is triggered by the AI themselves, not from another source. For example, in Mark Of Pain, they take the damage from people attacking them with physical. Or for smiting and AoE, it is coming from the player or directly from players spells. Because they hvae a choice to attack and take damage or dont attack and dont take damage (which they actually dont since they are incredibly stupid

) it is nto considered direct AoE.

Just an educated guess

.

yesitsrob · Dec 20, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

I would assume this would probably be the next on their list of AI improvements - though hopefully more of an improvement this time. We don't want them being completely silly and not attacking someone with 1hp left just because they have the hex on them

lg5000 · Dec 21, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

The really funny thing is that the shadow beasts who cast ss are more than happy to fight through it, NEXT to their team mates

You'd think a monster which casts that skill would be smart enough to know what it does...

Then again, I'm reasonably sure that most 'human' players also attack/cast through ss while standing next to their team mates.. so.. it's not all that wrong. (for the record, I cast through it once, unaware it's on me, realise what's going on and stop casting while moving away from team mates)

NekoZ · Dec 21, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Oh god I am going to be so pissed if this get's hit with the bat.. not because of UW or any of that, because this is one of my favorite skills ingame along with only a few others that are a bit above it.

LiQuId StEeL · Dec 21, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I doubt it will be changed... monster AI is still better than 2/3 of the people I end up grouping with

jray14 · Dec 21, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Supposedly the motivation of the big AI changes in November was to make PVE more like PVP. Well then... in PVP, when someone sees "Mark of Pain (-38)" floating above their own head in red, they know to get away from their teammates. Think they wouldn't react in EXACTLY the same way upon seeing "Spiteful Spirit (-37)" floating above their own head? Bah!

I suppose it's a little easier to discern who the victim of the Mark of Pain hex is, because it's whatever teammate you see getting beat on with physical damage. But that doesn't change the fact that 99.99999% of PVP players would still react to both instances in the exact same way: isolate yourself from your whole team a bit, just in case.

I'm not crying out for ANet to nerf SS or anything like that... I really like it now too

. But it just doesn't make sense that it's not treated the same as MoP, and inquisitive minds want to know why!

kvndoom · Dec 21, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Fear not; if it's used to farm UW, it's going to get nerfed. Maybe not the skill itself, but the AI reaction to it.

The final evolution of Guild Wars sometime in the future will be that if you use any skill whatsoever that causes damage, the enemy will run away. Only those who are resilient enough to kill exclusively with weapons will flourish. That'll fix those pesky farmers!

jray14 · Dec 21, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Fear not; if it's used to farm UW, it's going to get nerfed. Maybe not the skill itself, but the AI reaction to it.

But it already IS used to farm UW. It only took the pros a few days to develop the new FotM, which is now the invinci-monk + SS/SV necro duo (where SV = Sympathetic Visage).

Sekkira · Dec 21, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

I found SV to be a waste of time when playing a necro for the UW run. Suffering, watch for the smite hexes to go off, Spiteful Spirit, cover hex.

On topic though, making the monsters react exactly the same as PvP players would kill a lot of the skills actually used. When you're hit with Spiteful you stop doing whatever it is you're doing and wait for it to finish or be removed. Monsters run away from all AoE DoT's making them useless for actual damage. Why not just remove those skills and put in a skill that makes things run away or stop doing anything?

Hockster · Dec 21, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

I'm just wondering, does anyone have any insight as to why Spiteful Spirit was not included in the big AI update of Nov 10-11? Its mechanics are almost exactly the same as Mark of Pain, which is among the many "scarecrow" attacks now.

Beacuse all the monsters are actually clueless WaMo's. Just like 90% of the players.

Sol_Vie · Dec 21, 2005, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

Supposedly the motivation of the big AI changes in November was to make PVE more like PVP. Well then... in PVP, when someone sees "Mark of Pain (-38)" floating above their own head in red, they know to get away from their teammates. Think they wouldn't react in EXACTLY the same way upon seeing "Spiteful Spirit (-37)" floating above their own head? Bah!

Hehe -37? Is that all you do? Try -41.

Turbo Wombat · Dec 21, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jray14

But that doesn't change the fact that 99.99999% of PVP players would still react to both instances in the exact same way: isolate yourself from your whole team a bit, just in case.

No offense or anything, but I seem to come across plenty of PvP players who don't seem to give a damn what hexes are on them and will fight to the death regardless of whose death it may be. The scenario you mention is one where the hexed player actually has tactical knowledge of what's going on, but sadly I fear that those players aren't as common as you hope. The only reason I mention this is that if ANet wants to make PvE more like PvP, they should only make the monsters run away a certian percentage of the time. On the other hand though, I like having PvP and PvE with different play styles. When I want more of a challenge and would like to test myself against people who have (hopefully) put some thought into their builds in order to make them as robust as possible, I will PvP. If I decide I would rather just slaughter things in hordes, I play PvE. Additionally, I must say that I was plenty happy with the nice seperation between the two before ANet decided it needed to be bridged to some extent. Not that I'm complaining; I adapted. It just seemed to nerf the slaughterfest that I had grown to like when I was bored.

nunix · Dec 24, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Actually, I've noticed that some monsters DO care about Spiteful Spirit; not their allies, but the target. Scenario:

1) Spiteful Spirit on a target
2) Target triggers SS once or twice
3) Target -moves away from its allies- so they stop taking damage

I know I've witnessed this very reliably in some enemies; it's cropped up a few times with dwarves. I'd have to do a test, but I'm also pretty sure it's something to do with casters as the target.

And let's face it, if you got hit with Spiteful Spirit, would you necessarily stop attacking right away? You've got a monk back there, right?

Ajantis · Dec 24, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Haven't run into many players in pvp with 1400hp, +3 regen and 300+ damage nowadays..

Don't see the reason to make pve exactly like pvp :P

Omnidragon42 · Dec 24, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajantis

Haven't run into many players in pvp with 1400hp, +3 regen and 300+ damage nowadays..

Obviously you've never faced me in comps.

Agreed that it doesnt make sense for them not to react to MoP and SS the same way, but hey, give A-Net time, they'll nerf everything eventually.

Sentao Nugra · Dec 24, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

The real question is:

Why doesnt Kriegar care about Spiteful Spirit?

xD!

ghostlyranger · Dec 24, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

becoz spitefull spirit is an elite skill?

the question can be same as why monster dun care about gladiator defense.

priabirch · Dec 24, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Some people won't be happy until we're all running around in our undies wielding sticks and stones... and maybe some really dry leaves.

Maybe I should stay up all night and think of a mesmer skill i hate and complain about it until it's nerfed.

Seriously though, a-net keeps an eye on this stuff, they're not stupid.
If it needs to be nerfed, it will be. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, but it's getting old that people keep complaining about other classes skills and hinting that they should be nerfed.

If you see a build that someone is using and it works well, don't try to nerf it because they're good at strategically using their skills. Instead try and use it to your advantage, or think of a way to counter it.

Quote:

I don't have a necro character, and I'm feeling left out. With my Me/N I can be a "feaux SS/Spinal" and STILL way out-damage any of the other builds on any of my characters.

Make one like I did

You also have to remember that certain classes are good at certain things.
I don't complain that my Necro doesn't have 600 health.